Gender Diversity: Interview with Hans Hellendoorn

DEWIS is talking with Professor Hans Hellendoorn about women in science and equal opportunities at TU Delft. Hellendoorn is a professor of Control Theory and has been the head of the Cognitive Robotics Department at the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering since April 2018. He has also held the position of Pro Vice Rector Joint Education Affairs since February 2021 and is acting as a replacement for the position of Vice President Education since 1 October 2024. In this interview, we discuss his ideas, priorities and aspirations for creating gender-diverse and inclusive work environments.

DEWIS has seen the departure of a lot of female talent over the past year. This included a number of female professors and many talented associate professors who got senior positions more quickly elsewhere. Why do you think this is?

Hans: "Yes, I’ve noticed that too. It’s partly because technical universities are fishing from the same pond nationally and internationally. I conducted exit interviews with several women who said that they were not dissatisfied with Delft. They simply received attractive offers elsewhere, often from their home countries, which were likely motivational factors. It's important to continually reflect on why staff leave and to keep looking critically at ourselves."

In autumn 2024, the Netherlands Organization for Scientific Research (NWO) will start a pilot in the Talent Programme that is expected to lead to more allocations of Vidi grants to women. What’s your opinion on the developments in NWO's Talent Programme?

Hans: "That’s undoubtedly a very good thing. If we want to grow the number of women inacademia and science, we need to temporarily introduce a preferential policy. And I can see the impact of this. According to the sector plans, we had to hire a certain percentage of women, which led to more women in the department. This initiated a culture change.Traditional thinking about academic careers has changed. This traditional thinking meant that women, and some men, were given fewer opportunities due to stereotypical views aboutacademic roles and unconscious biases in hiring and promotion policies. We have demonstrated the value of going about this in a different way."

How did you become aware of your biases? Have you ever had 'implicit bias' training?

Hans: "Although I haven’t had specific training on that, I have participated in workshops within the department. These were quite useful because I learned more about myself and my prejudices."Some people still say: "I just want to hire the best people for the job and don't look at colouror gender as part of the process."

What would you say to those people?

Hans: "I’ve noticed that professors tend to choose staff or PhD candidates who are similar to themselves. We like to think that we are hiring the best candidate, but they’re often a copy of ourselves. I consciously encourage them to hire people who bring something new or differentto the table. Diversity enriches the team and we’re better for it."

What can the university do to highlight female talent at the university so that they have better opportunities to grow and flourish in their academic careers?

Hans: "The career development committees assess candidates but apply a lot of implicitrules. While this has certain advantages, such as not only looking at H-indexes, it also brings risks. These implicit rules leave too much to the random composition of the committee and result in one-sided assessments. By making the benchmarks and criteria more explicit, we can include all the different aspects in the assessment."

TU/Eindhoven's Irene Curie Fellowship programme is bearing fruit, as discussed in the article TU Eindhoven trekt na radicaal beleid spectaculair meer vrouwelijke medewerkers aan | de Volkskrant | deVolkskrant (TU Eindhoven attracts huge increase in female staff after radical policy).Wouldn't something like this also be a good idea for us?

Hans: "I believe it would. If you want to increase the number of women in academic positions, you have to put energy and effort into incentive policies. We tried it for years  without such measures and it had little effect. So it would seem that it is necessary."

What would you suggest to promote the advancement of women at TU Delft?I strongly advocate the hiring of women. More women joining the TU Delft team means more women being able to advance in their careers. However, I take a rather cautious approach to promoting advancement because it can quickly raise eyebrows. Importantly, women should be given the same opportunities as men when it comes to places on career development committees. Combining family and an academic career is still often seen as a source of a lot of stress. Do you think enough is being done to change this perception?

Hans: "I completely understand that point. Young women have to deal with a lot of challenges, including project-related issues that arise during their maternity leave, inadequate breastfeeding areas and overcrowded childcare facilities. Psychological complaints, such as having a colicky baby, can also weigh heavily. Instead of offering direct solutions, we should organise more listening sessions with young parents to discuss their experiences and look for solutions together. Unfortunately, maternity leave is often seen as a problem instead of a cause for celebration."

Have you noticed changes within the university over the years when it comes to diversity and inclusion? What exactly has changed? How did that go?

Hans: "It’s a lot different now compared to when I did my PhD in Computer Science. Back then it was a predominantly male community with women mainly in supporting roles. It is a lot more diverse now and there is a far greater understanding of the need for increased diversity."

What is your vision of the ideal inclusive university of the future?

Hans: We still take too narrow a view of the career path of an excellent academic and often place too much emphasis on traditional things such as the number of publications, grants and conference speeches. These are obviously important, but we must also learn to look at it from a broader perspective because there's more than one way to be an excellent academic.I hope we remain open to and create more space for these diverse paths and develop new forms of recognition and appreciation.

Does your ideal inclusive university also need new leadership?

Hans: "Yes, I think so. We can learn a lot from other universities, both nationally and internationally, in terms of leadership and regarding the process of choosing administrators. We don't have to adopt everything but we can certainly get some valuable insights. My biggest wish is for all of us to take staff issues seriously and not trivialise them."

Society also demands a new kind of engineer - one who can help solve complex social issues.What additional skills are important for the engineers of the future?

Hans: "Engineers used to provide solutions within our society, often with a 'here is the solution to your problem' mentality. Modern society is more empowered and outspoken and people demand that engineers listen more to their needs. So our new engineers must not only provide solutions but also be more attuned to what people really want, which requires adifferent approach to research and education. This will be more effective if our teams include a good balance of men and women and reflects the actual makeup of society as a whole."

What would you say to women who are unsure whether an academic career is for them?

Hans: "If you enjoy academia, science and research, we invite you to join us. Strengthen and lend your voice to our team and we’ll work together to change the culture. These changes are already underway and will continue gradually. Several women have already told me that this is a good place to work, so join us and see it for yourself."

What advice would you give to women who encounter resistance in advancing to senior positions?

Hans: "If something doesn’t seem right or fair, you need to discuss it with a colleague,manager or confidential adviser. You can also visit me if necessary. Patience is important because careers tend to develop slowly, mostly over a period of about 40 years. But injustices need to be addressed. We are now in a situation where that is not just possible, it’s actively encouraged."

When do you foresee DEWIS no longer being needed?

Hans: "DEWIS has facilitated a much greater understanding of the barriers women face.Cross-faculty organisations where people meet are important and must continue. We should stop DEWIS only when nobody comes to those meetings anymore."

Questions or comments can be sent to dewis@tudelft.nl